Separatist leaders write to J&K interlocutors, say 'no'
Randeep Singh Nandal, TNN
Randeep Singh Nandal, TNN
SRINAGAR: A one-page letter from separatist leader Shabbir Shah to the central interlocutors on Friday declining an invitation to talks — the first and only official contact with separatists — has sent a wave of excitement here.
Even if it's to say 'no', the separatists have finally established contact with the team, say observers.
In the letter, written on the official letterhead of his party, Jammu & Kashmir Freedom Party, Shah has expressed his inability to talk to the central team as long as major demands like troops reduction, release of prisoners, etc, are not met.
Pretty standard stuff, but still, it led to a flutter of excitement among the interlocutors who consider this a breakthrough. The reasons are not difficult to fathom. In the next two weeks, the central team of Dileep Padgoankar, M Ansari and Radha Kumar, will submit their interim report to the central government, on a political settlement in Kashmir.
But the report has a yawning gap. As it stood, it would have been without any input whatsoever, suggestion or opinion or even opposition, from the entire separatist camp. The team has not been able to engage with either
faction of the Hurriyat.
So, who have they engaged with in their visits to the state? The official press release gives the list that includes, "mainstream political parties, RTI and human rights activists, writers, stone-pelters, doctors, journalists, social and cultural organizations, trade unionists and chairpersons of human rights and women's
commission."
No mention of the Hurriyat, despite the team's climb down, from initially saying they would not go uninvited to talk to anyone, to sending emails to the separatist camp asking for their views.
But that's just half the story, the Hurriyat itself is hopelessly divided, On Saturday, the JKLF's Yasin Malik sat on a one-day hunger strike for the resolution of the Kashmir issue, but the hot topic of conversation was Shabbir Shah's letter to the interlocutors, a break from the decision of the Hurriyat moderates to defer any decision till the chairman Mirwaiz Omer Farooq returned to Srinagar.
Also reflected in the speeches made was the unease within the moderates at losing space to mainstream parties in Kashmir, as both the ruling National Conference as well as the opposition PDP have of late been stressing on their own autonomy and self-rule formulas.
The contours of both proposals are strikingly similar to what many in the moderate Hurriyat camp privately agree as the only solution to the Kashmir issue.
Under stress from this flank, the moderates have another headache — an increasing pressure to unify with Syed Ali Shah Geelani's hardline Hurriyat faction.
"I have never been part of any meaningless exercise, why are you flogging us with the unity lash?" said the senior moderate Hurriyat leader, Prof Abdul Gani Bhatt, in a recent statement.
If the moderates are confused, the situation for Geelani, isn't any better. For a leader who for many years worked on the sole agenda of Kashmir's merger with Pakistan as the solution to the Kashmir isuue, Geelani is now having to deal with fact that for many Kashmiri youth, Pakistan isn't a very attractive proposition. In the summer unrest of 2010, pro-Pakistan slogans were conspicuous by their absence.
Sources close to the interlocutors say they believe this is is the reason why the Hurriyat camp is avoiding contact. "What will they say? They have no unity, no framework that they agree on. All they have are slogans," they say.
But, then, the interlocutors aren't making much headway with the state government either, despite repeatedly making recommendations for the release of stone-pelters, they have to watch impassively as the state government, alarmed by intelligence reports, has actually stepped up the arrest of stone-pelters in the past month.
On the key recommendation of troops reduction and a re-evaluation of laws like the Armed Forces (Special Powers) Act, they have again met with resistance from the defence ministry.
riot (USA)
10 hrs ago (07:34 AM)
The only possible solution is to allow people who want to be with Pakistan to move and settle there... its even better to provide them some money to vacate our land so that we all can live peacefully... forget swapping of lands or heck even sharing power/administration over kashmir...
Agree (38)
Disagree (10)
Recommend (17)
Offensive
Santosh Kumar (Mumbai) replies to Naveed
10 hrs ago (07:29 AM)
Freedom from whom? Kashmir is a part of India. It's not different than any other state in India. You people have displaced Kashmiri pandits and other Hindus from their home. Shabbir Shah, Geelani should be deported to Pakistan.One more division of India in the name of religion is unacceptable.
Agree (26)
Disagree (5)
Recommend (15)
Offensive
Sunil (Bangalore) replies to Naveed
10 hrs ago (07:37 AM)
Even Pakistan did not deserve freedom...let alone Kashmir...How about giving freedom to Sindh? A beggar's wishes never ends after all...
Agree (23)
Disagree (6)
Recommend (13)
Offensive
Harshad (U.S.A.)
6 hrs ago (11:54 AM)
Kashmir being one of the state of India as per democracy only Kashmiris are electing their representative to run their state like any other states of India Just forget religious devide of the state same as any other state in India. If Kamiris run the state like any other state of India than Kashmir is a free state not an ocupied by India If some people do not want to participate in election than they are cowards they do not deserve to be leader. there is no restriction for Kasmiris to look for job or to do bussiness in India like any other people of India. Appears to be some kasmiri politicians want to suppress their own people not accepting democracy and rule kamiris like middle eastern or pakistani decetors
Agree (15)
Disagree (6)
Recommend (12)
Offensive
Sangram Singh Rana replies to Naveed
9 hrs ago (08:33 AM)
Either you have not read my comments properly, or you could not understand the comments. Once again, for plebiscite to happen, as per the UN resolution, as a pre-condition Pakistan must withdraw it's troops completely from POK (Pakistan Occupied Kashmir). Pakistan NEVER agreed to do so. Communist China claims their occupied part as a part of it's territory. Hence For plebiscite, both China and Pakistan have to fulfill their obligations, which they don't want to do. Moreover, under the changed demographic conditions, it would be unfair to hold plebiscite, as Pakistan has deliberately settled huge non-Kashmiri population in their occupied part to change the demography. Therefore, you can not blame India for not holding the plebiscite. Also, as I mentioned earlier, the Shias from Kargil, Hindus from Jammu and Buddhists from Ladakh form majorities in those areas and form about 90% of the geographic area of he State and are staunchly pro-Indian. The problem only lies with the small Kashmir valley (about 10% of the geographical area of the State) which a few months ago came out ( about 60% Voter turnout) in large numbers in spite of appeals by separatists for boycott and threats of life by terrorists. If Pakistan stops interference in the State, the problem will cease to exist. Pakistan being an Islamic State can not give it a right to claim Kashmir, as India has more Muslims than the whole population of Pakistan. Kashmir being a part of India is a test for it being secular.
Agree (19)
Disagree (1)
Recommend (12)
Offensive
PANDIT (NCR snagar)
11 hrs ago (06:45 AM)
Kashmir, just as the 160 million Indian Muslims, is an INTEGRAL part of India. There is NOTHING to negotiate about this. Kashmir has belonged to Hindus for 1000s of years. Important branches of Hinduism have originated from Kashmir, some holiest of the holy Hindu Pilgrimage places are in Kashmir, as the most important Hindu scripts have originated from Kashmir. We have never invited Muslims here. Though Parsis, Syrian Christians and Jews have found prosperity and acceptance here. Ahmadiyas, Bohras, Sufis and Bahais, though often not accepted in many muslim countries, flourish here. If the muslims in Kashmir are unhappy here then they are free to go elsewhere.
Agree (20)
Disagree (5)
Recommend (12)
Offensive
Sangram Singh Rana (New Delhi) replies to Naveed
10 hrs ago (07:33 AM)
The State of Jammu and Kashmir consists of Hindus (dogras), Buddhists, Sunni Muslims and Shia Muslims. The Hindus are in a majority in Jammu region, the Buddhists are in a majority in Ladakh region, the Shias are in a majority in Kargil region and the Sunnis are in a majority in the Kashmir valley. Jammu, Ladakh and Kargil form slightly larger than 90% of the geographical area of the State. The Hindus, Buddhists and Shias are hardcore pro-Indian and staunchly oppose independence option or Pakistan option. The Sunnis in the valley are concentrated in the small valley are the people who are agitating since the last two decades. Various Surveys conducted by independent foreign agencies have indicated that about 60% of the Sunnis are pro-Indian, about 30% of the Sunnis are pro-independence and about 10% are pro-Pakistan. Under these circumstances, India has always been confident that it can win any plebiscite in the State, but the problem lies in Pakistan occupied State, where the demography has been completely altered as a large percentage of non-Kashmiris have been settled in that region. In Indian part, article 370 of the constitution prevents any non-Kashmiri to settle in the state and Indians from other States can not buy any property in that State. Hence the problem is in Pakistan occupied Kashmir and China occupied Kashmir. Also, as per UN resolutions, as a precondition of plebiscite, Pakistan must withdraw it's army from Kashmir, which Pakistan has never agreed to do.
Agree (22)
Disagree (4)
Recommend (11)
Offensive
Dilip (Delhi) replies to prince
6 hrs ago (12:14 PM)
Yes, Kashmir belongs to us. Not to foreign settlers from Central Asia or Iran who don't even have Kashmiri names or even follow Kashmir's native culture or religion. you have to be a Kashmiri to claim Kashmir as your own. Just like you have to an Arab Muslim to claim Mecca, got it Prince?
Agree (16)
Disagree (4)
Recommend (10)
Offensive
Patriot (USA) replies to Naveed
10 hrs ago (07:32 AM)
lol first as a country 'Pakistan' needs to develop some freedom and dignity... beggars cant demand anything... reality check pls b4 bothering to air ur views
Agree (24)
Disagree (5)
Recommend (10)
Offensive
True Indian (Shanghai) replies to Naveed
10 hrs ago (07:35 AM)
They are just Hippocratic, who use foreign money to instigate the poor boys for stone pelting. Why dont they fight election and prove that they are true representatives of Kashmiri People. ?? Last time so many seperatist leaders fought elections and all of them lost ?? How can they claim to be representative if they have lost in elections..?? Our Govt. is taking stupid steps by talking to them
Agree (17)
Disagree (3)
Recommend (9)
Offensive
Suman Mukherjee (Singapore / India)
10 hrs ago (07:32 AM)
It has been stretched a bit too far. Everybody knows there is only one feasible solution for Kashmir - complete, unconditional annexation with India. Well, having said that I, personally, have no opposition to Kashmir being granted independence by India with simultaneous independence granted to Gilgit and Baltistan by Pakistan and Aksai Chin by China and reunification of Kashmir. BUT that is practical by no means, as neither Pakistan nor China has shown the slightest intention to do their part of the deal. Also, if peoples' referendum is what Kashmiris vow on, they should respect the same in Jammu and Ladakh, neither of which regions will want to be a part of "independent" Kashmir. So, the only realistic possibility is that Indian Kashmir assimilates with the rest of India. To be able to do so, Indian govt needs to recognize the menace done by these separatists working day and night in the Valley. By referring to them as "leaders" Indian govt and newspapers are equally culpable to the crime of measuring all Kashmiris by the same yardstick - that they are essentially separatists. Why give them that recognition? Why can't we, for once, be smart and either secretly annihilate these "leaders" or publicly expose them and their camouflaged intentions. Congress, which has the Tehelka, NDTV and a dozen other news media on its payroll doesn't need me to tell them how to do that, does it? They have done it so many times with the hapeless BJP leaders.
Agree (17)
Disagree (5)
Recommend (9)
Offensive
kishore (Florida )
2 hrs ago (04:04 PM)
Two catastrophic mistakes were made that has caused this whole J&K imbroglio to remian unresolved. The first was Nehru's decision to refer the matter to the UN and accepting its decision to hold a plebiscite. Completely unnecessary and uncalled for. He might as well have agreed to rescind the independence of India. The second mistake was Indira Gandhi being seduced by Bhutto into signing the Shimla declaration which he had no intention of honoring but got the freedom of Paki POWs and the return of all captured territory. India got nothing in return. Gandhi had the opportunity to end Pakistani pretensions to J&K once and for all and she blew it. Now the next lot of Nehru-Gandhis are at it again. They are trying to negotiate with separatists who refuse to participate in elections as they fear being exposed as emperors without clothes. A solution will be found once India gets rids of its obsession with the Nehru-Gandhi dynasty.
Agree (9)
Disagree (1)
Recommend (8)
Offensive
unicorn (bnglr)
6 hrs ago (12:15 PM)
like thousand of online terrorists on TOI in their unsuccessfull attempts to ceate conflicts in india, the separitists in kashmir, and the hurriyat are recieving dunding and advices from the these foul pakis. they will never ever be successfull.we r rich and we will richent he kashmiris who wil never ever even think of talking with in slum thiieves pak.all pakis disagreeing me,my challenge is wait n see forever ur failure..
Agree (15)
Disagree (8)
Recommend (8)
Offensive
Sangram Singh Rana replies to Naveed
8 hrs ago (10:06 AM)
I have already answered your questions on plebiscite separately. Now to answer your other questions - Terrorists from Pakistan murdered and ethnically cleansed out almost all non-Muslims from the valley. Most terrorists (thousands in number) were destroyed. Unfortunately, as a collateral damage some innocent Kashmiris too got killed. But when insurgency happens, such collateral damages too happen, as they are currently happening in KP/Balochistan now and in 1971 in Banladesh (as per reports from Dhaka, 3 million civilians were murdered by Pakistani troops in one year). Your second question about size of troops - Pakistan is singularly obsessed with Kashmir right from 1947, when Jinnah sent tribal Lashkar mixed with army personnel in civilian clothing to invade, occupy and loot Kashmir. In 1965, Ayub Khan launched Operation Gibraltar and invaded Kashmir militarily. About 10 years ago, there was Kargil intrusion and war. There was Siachen battle in the 1980s. The Chinese keep on intruding into Ladakh periodically. For security purposes, being a strategically sensitive region, India has o maintain large armed presence in Kashmir, as there are two adversaries, Pakistan and China, apart from a few hundred armed terrorists. Thirdly, stop calling secular India as Hindu India, as we have 4 states where Christians are in a majority, 1 state where Sikhs are in majority and 1 state where Muslims are in majority. In India our Muslim population is larger then the population of Pakistan.
Agree (12)
Disagree (2)
Recommend (7)
Offensive
Akthar Hussein (Hyderabad) replies to prince
6 hrs ago (12:08 PM)
you in which land ? where the heck are you from ? Jupiter ?
Agree (10)
Disagree (2)
Recommend (5)
Offensive
richard dias (Chembur, Bombay)
2 hrs ago (04:01 PM)
Struggle is a part of life but how long it can remain meaningless? There are people in Kashmir who wants into be a part of Pakistan. Will it given any freedom to people of Kashmir when it cannot face its own militants? The question of remaining free. Kashmir doesn't have agricultural fields needed to produce food for the people living there. Kashmir's future is with India. Settle the issues of difference soon. It would help the youth of Kashmir more than any one else. They don't have to lose their youth in an useless battle to become useless old people.
Agree (7)
Disagree (2)
Recommend (4)
Offensive
Akthar Hussein (Hyderabad) replies to prince
5 hrs ago (12:22 PM)
and you are begsterd is it ?
Agree (5)
Disagree (1)
Recommend (4)
Offensive
Naveed replies to Santosh Kumar
10 hrs ago (07:58 AM)
Freedom of Kashmir means from Hindu_India forces of 1 Million in Kashmir. It is freedom from India and Pakistan.
Agree (7)
Disagree (23)
Recommend (4)
Offensive
Naveed replies to Sangram Singh Rana
10 hrs ago (07:55 AM)
If Majority is with India then why is India afraid of free and fair plebiscite. They can make that offer to the world, win the plebiscite in J&K and come out ahead. Why has India killed over 100,000 Kashmiris since 1989 if Majority is with them You passionate plea and the ground situation do not go together. Whenever, pro-independence leaders call for strike the entire valley is shut down despite India having stationed over 1 million in military, para-military and police. I find it difficult to accept that if Majority supports India why has India stationed over 1 Million forces in a population of 6 Million? Why does India shoot at protesters? Don't they have right to protest and demand equal rights? Majority of Indian Hindus do not value the life of Kashmiris, yes they do care about the geographical territory of Kashmir. From Majority Hindu_Indian perspective 6 million could die or could be killed, they care less! It is unconscionable, immoral, illegal and illogical for Hindu_India to continue enslavement of Kashmiri people.
Agree (10)
Disagree (23)
Recommend (4)
Offensive
swamivas (Hong Kong)
9 hrs ago (09:03 AM)
A WELCOME MOVE! Opening up the ground leading to bringing to limelight the hidden hide-outs of such organizations with separatist agenda should be in the right direction though placing too much hope for a breakthrough could be a misplaced notion!
Agree (9)
Disagree (1)
Recommend (3)
Offensive
Naveed (USa)
11 hrs ago (06:57 AM)
Shabbir Shah and Geelani are the true leaders of Kashmir. Kashmiris need freedom and dignity like other communities in the world.
Agree (9)
Disagree (35)
Recommend (3)
Offensive
Bharatbal (Greater Hindusthan) replies to Akthar Hussein
2 hrs ago (03:34 PM)
I,Dilip and Patriot belong to one mother called Greater Hindusthan. I m unsure to which land you belong. if you mean u dont belong here better leave my motherland.
Agree (2)
Disagree (1)
Recommend (2)
Offensive
Akthar Hussein (Hyderabad) replies to Naveed
6 hrs ago (11:40 AM)
Geelani is a separatist who strongly supports Kashmir's integration with Pakistan ... you having said in an earlier comment that Geelani is a true leader of Kashmiris how can u say now that freedom is sought from Pak ; and does it mean that you are abandoning fellow Kashmiris who are under Pakistani occupation in POK ?
Agree (4)
Disagree (1)
Recommend (2)
Offensive
riot (USA)
10 hrs ago (07:34 AM)
The only possible solution is to allow people who want to be with Pakistan to move and settle there... its even better to provide them some money to vacate our land so that we all can live peacefully... forget swapping of lands or heck even sharing power/administration over kashmir...
Agree (38)
Disagree (10)
Recommend (17)
Offensive
Santosh Kumar (Mumbai) replies to Naveed
10 hrs ago (07:29 AM)
Freedom from whom? Kashmir is a part of India. It's not different than any other state in India. You people have displaced Kashmiri pandits and other Hindus from their home. Shabbir Shah, Geelani should be deported to Pakistan.One more division of India in the name of religion is unacceptable.
Agree (26)
Disagree (5)
Recommend (15)
Offensive
Sunil (Bangalore) replies to Naveed
10 hrs ago (07:37 AM)
Even Pakistan did not deserve freedom...let alone Kashmir...How about giving freedom to Sindh? A beggar's wishes never ends after all...
Agree (23)
Disagree (6)
Recommend (13)
Offensive
Harshad (U.S.A.)
6 hrs ago (11:54 AM)
Kashmir being one of the state of India as per democracy only Kashmiris are electing their representative to run their state like any other states of India Just forget religious devide of the state same as any other state in India. If Kamiris run the state like any other state of India than Kashmir is a free state not an ocupied by India If some people do not want to participate in election than they are cowards they do not deserve to be leader. there is no restriction for Kasmiris to look for job or to do bussiness in India like any other people of India. Appears to be some kasmiri politicians want to suppress their own people not accepting democracy and rule kamiris like middle eastern or pakistani decetors
Agree (15)
Disagree (6)
Recommend (12)
Offensive
Sangram Singh Rana replies to Naveed
9 hrs ago (08:33 AM)
Either you have not read my comments properly, or you could not understand the comments. Once again, for plebiscite to happen, as per the UN resolution, as a pre-condition Pakistan must withdraw it's troops completely from POK (Pakistan Occupied Kashmir). Pakistan NEVER agreed to do so. Communist China claims their occupied part as a part of it's territory. Hence For plebiscite, both China and Pakistan have to fulfill their obligations, which they don't want to do. Moreover, under the changed demographic conditions, it would be unfair to hold plebiscite, as Pakistan has deliberately settled huge non-Kashmiri population in their occupied part to change the demography. Therefore, you can not blame India for not holding the plebiscite. Also, as I mentioned earlier, the Shias from Kargil, Hindus from Jammu and Buddhists from Ladakh form majorities in those areas and form about 90% of the geographic area of he State and are staunchly pro-Indian. The problem only lies with the small Kashmir valley (about 10% of the geographical area of the State) which a few months ago came out ( about 60% Voter turnout) in large numbers in spite of appeals by separatists for boycott and threats of life by terrorists. If Pakistan stops interference in the State, the problem will cease to exist. Pakistan being an Islamic State can not give it a right to claim Kashmir, as India has more Muslims than the whole population of Pakistan. Kashmir being a part of India is a test for it being secular.
Agree (19)
Disagree (1)
Recommend (12)
Offensive
PANDIT (NCR snagar)
11 hrs ago (06:45 AM)
Kashmir, just as the 160 million Indian Muslims, is an INTEGRAL part of India. There is NOTHING to negotiate about this. Kashmir has belonged to Hindus for 1000s of years. Important branches of Hinduism have originated from Kashmir, some holiest of the holy Hindu Pilgrimage places are in Kashmir, as the most important Hindu scripts have originated from Kashmir. We have never invited Muslims here. Though Parsis, Syrian Christians and Jews have found prosperity and acceptance here. Ahmadiyas, Bohras, Sufis and Bahais, though often not accepted in many muslim countries, flourish here. If the muslims in Kashmir are unhappy here then they are free to go elsewhere.
Agree (20)
Disagree (5)
Recommend (12)
Offensive
Sangram Singh Rana (New Delhi) replies to Naveed
10 hrs ago (07:33 AM)
The State of Jammu and Kashmir consists of Hindus (dogras), Buddhists, Sunni Muslims and Shia Muslims. The Hindus are in a majority in Jammu region, the Buddhists are in a majority in Ladakh region, the Shias are in a majority in Kargil region and the Sunnis are in a majority in the Kashmir valley. Jammu, Ladakh and Kargil form slightly larger than 90% of the geographical area of the State. The Hindus, Buddhists and Shias are hardcore pro-Indian and staunchly oppose independence option or Pakistan option. The Sunnis in the valley are concentrated in the small valley are the people who are agitating since the last two decades. Various Surveys conducted by independent foreign agencies have indicated that about 60% of the Sunnis are pro-Indian, about 30% of the Sunnis are pro-independence and about 10% are pro-Pakistan. Under these circumstances, India has always been confident that it can win any plebiscite in the State, but the problem lies in Pakistan occupied State, where the demography has been completely altered as a large percentage of non-Kashmiris have been settled in that region. In Indian part, article 370 of the constitution prevents any non-Kashmiri to settle in the state and Indians from other States can not buy any property in that State. Hence the problem is in Pakistan occupied Kashmir and China occupied Kashmir. Also, as per UN resolutions, as a precondition of plebiscite, Pakistan must withdraw it's army from Kashmir, which Pakistan has never agreed to do.
Agree (22)
Disagree (4)
Recommend (11)
Offensive
Dilip (Delhi) replies to prince
6 hrs ago (12:14 PM)
Yes, Kashmir belongs to us. Not to foreign settlers from Central Asia or Iran who don't even have Kashmiri names or even follow Kashmir's native culture or religion. you have to be a Kashmiri to claim Kashmir as your own. Just like you have to an Arab Muslim to claim Mecca, got it Prince?
Agree (16)
Disagree (4)
Recommend (10)
Offensive
Patriot (USA) replies to Naveed
10 hrs ago (07:32 AM)
lol first as a country 'Pakistan' needs to develop some freedom and dignity... beggars cant demand anything... reality check pls b4 bothering to air ur views
Agree (24)
Disagree (5)
Recommend (10)
Offensive
True Indian (Shanghai) replies to Naveed
10 hrs ago (07:35 AM)
They are just Hippocratic, who use foreign money to instigate the poor boys for stone pelting. Why dont they fight election and prove that they are true representatives of Kashmiri People. ?? Last time so many seperatist leaders fought elections and all of them lost ?? How can they claim to be representative if they have lost in elections..?? Our Govt. is taking stupid steps by talking to them
Agree (17)
Disagree (3)
Recommend (9)
Offensive
Suman Mukherjee (Singapore / India)
10 hrs ago (07:32 AM)
It has been stretched a bit too far. Everybody knows there is only one feasible solution for Kashmir - complete, unconditional annexation with India. Well, having said that I, personally, have no opposition to Kashmir being granted independence by India with simultaneous independence granted to Gilgit and Baltistan by Pakistan and Aksai Chin by China and reunification of Kashmir. BUT that is practical by no means, as neither Pakistan nor China has shown the slightest intention to do their part of the deal. Also, if peoples' referendum is what Kashmiris vow on, they should respect the same in Jammu and Ladakh, neither of which regions will want to be a part of "independent" Kashmir. So, the only realistic possibility is that Indian Kashmir assimilates with the rest of India. To be able to do so, Indian govt needs to recognize the menace done by these separatists working day and night in the Valley. By referring to them as "leaders" Indian govt and newspapers are equally culpable to the crime of measuring all Kashmiris by the same yardstick - that they are essentially separatists. Why give them that recognition? Why can't we, for once, be smart and either secretly annihilate these "leaders" or publicly expose them and their camouflaged intentions. Congress, which has the Tehelka, NDTV and a dozen other news media on its payroll doesn't need me to tell them how to do that, does it? They have done it so many times with the hapeless BJP leaders.
Agree (17)
Disagree (5)
Recommend (9)
Offensive
kishore (Florida )
2 hrs ago (04:04 PM)
Two catastrophic mistakes were made that has caused this whole J&K imbroglio to remian unresolved. The first was Nehru's decision to refer the matter to the UN and accepting its decision to hold a plebiscite. Completely unnecessary and uncalled for. He might as well have agreed to rescind the independence of India. The second mistake was Indira Gandhi being seduced by Bhutto into signing the Shimla declaration which he had no intention of honoring but got the freedom of Paki POWs and the return of all captured territory. India got nothing in return. Gandhi had the opportunity to end Pakistani pretensions to J&K once and for all and she blew it. Now the next lot of Nehru-Gandhis are at it again. They are trying to negotiate with separatists who refuse to participate in elections as they fear being exposed as emperors without clothes. A solution will be found once India gets rids of its obsession with the Nehru-Gandhi dynasty.
Agree (9)
Disagree (1)
Recommend (8)
Offensive
unicorn (bnglr)
6 hrs ago (12:15 PM)
like thousand of online terrorists on TOI in their unsuccessfull attempts to ceate conflicts in india, the separitists in kashmir, and the hurriyat are recieving dunding and advices from the these foul pakis. they will never ever be successfull.we r rich and we will richent he kashmiris who wil never ever even think of talking with in slum thiieves pak.all pakis disagreeing me,my challenge is wait n see forever ur failure..
Agree (15)
Disagree (8)
Recommend (8)
Offensive
Sangram Singh Rana replies to Naveed
8 hrs ago (10:06 AM)
I have already answered your questions on plebiscite separately. Now to answer your other questions - Terrorists from Pakistan murdered and ethnically cleansed out almost all non-Muslims from the valley. Most terrorists (thousands in number) were destroyed. Unfortunately, as a collateral damage some innocent Kashmiris too got killed. But when insurgency happens, such collateral damages too happen, as they are currently happening in KP/Balochistan now and in 1971 in Banladesh (as per reports from Dhaka, 3 million civilians were murdered by Pakistani troops in one year). Your second question about size of troops - Pakistan is singularly obsessed with Kashmir right from 1947, when Jinnah sent tribal Lashkar mixed with army personnel in civilian clothing to invade, occupy and loot Kashmir. In 1965, Ayub Khan launched Operation Gibraltar and invaded Kashmir militarily. About 10 years ago, there was Kargil intrusion and war. There was Siachen battle in the 1980s. The Chinese keep on intruding into Ladakh periodically. For security purposes, being a strategically sensitive region, India has o maintain large armed presence in Kashmir, as there are two adversaries, Pakistan and China, apart from a few hundred armed terrorists. Thirdly, stop calling secular India as Hindu India, as we have 4 states where Christians are in a majority, 1 state where Sikhs are in majority and 1 state where Muslims are in majority. In India our Muslim population is larger then the population of Pakistan.
Agree (12)
Disagree (2)
Recommend (7)
Offensive
Akthar Hussein (Hyderabad) replies to prince
6 hrs ago (12:08 PM)
you in which land ? where the heck are you from ? Jupiter ?
Agree (10)
Disagree (2)
Recommend (5)
Offensive
richard dias (Chembur, Bombay)
2 hrs ago (04:01 PM)
Struggle is a part of life but how long it can remain meaningless? There are people in Kashmir who wants into be a part of Pakistan. Will it given any freedom to people of Kashmir when it cannot face its own militants? The question of remaining free. Kashmir doesn't have agricultural fields needed to produce food for the people living there. Kashmir's future is with India. Settle the issues of difference soon. It would help the youth of Kashmir more than any one else. They don't have to lose their youth in an useless battle to become useless old people.
Agree (7)
Disagree (2)
Recommend (4)
Offensive
Akthar Hussein (Hyderabad) replies to prince
5 hrs ago (12:22 PM)
and you are begsterd is it ?
Agree (5)
Disagree (1)
Recommend (4)
Offensive
Naveed replies to Santosh Kumar
10 hrs ago (07:58 AM)
Freedom of Kashmir means from Hindu_India forces of 1 Million in Kashmir. It is freedom from India and Pakistan.
Agree (7)
Disagree (23)
Recommend (4)
Offensive
Naveed replies to Sangram Singh Rana
10 hrs ago (07:55 AM)
If Majority is with India then why is India afraid of free and fair plebiscite. They can make that offer to the world, win the plebiscite in J&K and come out ahead. Why has India killed over 100,000 Kashmiris since 1989 if Majority is with them You passionate plea and the ground situation do not go together. Whenever, pro-independence leaders call for strike the entire valley is shut down despite India having stationed over 1 million in military, para-military and police. I find it difficult to accept that if Majority supports India why has India stationed over 1 Million forces in a population of 6 Million? Why does India shoot at protesters? Don't they have right to protest and demand equal rights? Majority of Indian Hindus do not value the life of Kashmiris, yes they do care about the geographical territory of Kashmir. From Majority Hindu_Indian perspective 6 million could die or could be killed, they care less! It is unconscionable, immoral, illegal and illogical for Hindu_India to continue enslavement of Kashmiri people.
Agree (10)
Disagree (23)
Recommend (4)
Offensive
swamivas (Hong Kong)
9 hrs ago (09:03 AM)
A WELCOME MOVE! Opening up the ground leading to bringing to limelight the hidden hide-outs of such organizations with separatist agenda should be in the right direction though placing too much hope for a breakthrough could be a misplaced notion!
Agree (9)
Disagree (1)
Recommend (3)
Offensive
Naveed (USa)
11 hrs ago (06:57 AM)
Shabbir Shah and Geelani are the true leaders of Kashmir. Kashmiris need freedom and dignity like other communities in the world.
Agree (9)
Disagree (35)
Recommend (3)
Offensive
Bharatbal (Greater Hindusthan) replies to Akthar Hussein
2 hrs ago (03:34 PM)
I,Dilip and Patriot belong to one mother called Greater Hindusthan. I m unsure to which land you belong. if you mean u dont belong here better leave my motherland.
Agree (2)
Disagree (1)
Recommend (2)
Offensive
Akthar Hussein (Hyderabad) replies to Naveed
6 hrs ago (11:40 AM)
Geelani is a separatist who strongly supports Kashmir's integration with Pakistan ... you having said in an earlier comment that Geelani is a true leader of Kashmiris how can u say now that freedom is sought from Pak ; and does it mean that you are abandoning fellow Kashmiris who are under Pakistani occupation in POK ?
Agree (4)
Disagree (1)
Recommend (2)
Offensive
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Separatist-leaders-write-to-JK-interlocutors-say-no/articleshow/7584186.cms
Even if it's to say 'no', the separatists have finally established contact with the team, say observers.
In the letter, written on the official letterhead of his party, Jammu & Kashmir Freedom Party, Shah has expressed his inability to talk to the central team as long as major demands like troops reduction, release of prisoners, etc, are not met.
Pretty standard stuff, but still, it led to a flutter of excitement among the interlocutors who consider this a breakthrough. The reasons are not difficult to fathom. In the next two weeks, the central team of Dileep Padgoankar, M Ansari and Radha Kumar, will submit their interim report to the central government, on a political settlement in Kashmir.
But the report has a yawning gap. As it stood, it would have been without any input whatsoever, suggestion or opinion or even opposition, from the entire separatist camp. The team has not been able to engage with either
faction of the Hurriyat.
So, who have they engaged with in their visits to the state? The official press release gives the list that includes, "mainstream political parties, RTI and human rights activists, writers, stone-pelters, doctors, journalists, social and cultural organizations, trade unionists and chairpersons of human rights and women's
commission."
No mention of the Hurriyat, despite the team's climb down, from initially saying they would not go uninvited to talk to anyone, to sending emails to the separatist camp asking for their views.
But that's just half the story, the Hurriyat itself is hopelessly divided, On Saturday, the JKLF's Yasin Malik sat on a one-day hunger strike for the resolution of the Kashmir issue, but the hot topic of conversation was Shabbir Shah's letter to the interlocutors, a break from the decision of the Hurriyat moderates to defer any decision till the chairman Mirwaiz Omer Farooq returned to Srinagar.
Also reflected in the speeches made was the unease within the moderates at losing space to mainstream parties in Kashmir, as both the ruling National Conference as well as the opposition PDP have of late been stressing on their own autonomy and self-rule formulas.
The contours of both proposals are strikingly similar to what many in the moderate Hurriyat camp privately agree as the only solution to the Kashmir issue.
Under stress from this flank, the moderates have another headache — an increasing pressure to unify with Syed Ali Shah Geelani's hardline Hurriyat faction.
"I have never been part of any meaningless exercise, why are you flogging us with the unity lash?" said the senior moderate Hurriyat leader, Prof Abdul Gani Bhatt, in a recent statement.
If the moderates are confused, the situation for Geelani, isn't any better. For a leader who for many years worked on the sole agenda of Kashmir's merger with Pakistan as the solution to the Kashmir isuue, Geelani is now having to deal with fact that for many Kashmiri youth, Pakistan isn't a very attractive proposition. In the summer unrest of 2010, pro-Pakistan slogans were conspicuous by their absence.
Sources close to the interlocutors say they believe this is is the reason why the Hurriyat camp is avoiding contact. "What will they say? They have no unity, no framework that they agree on. All they have are slogans," they say.
But, then, the interlocutors aren't making much headway with the state government either, despite repeatedly making recommendations for the release of stone-pelters, they have to watch impassively as the state government, alarmed by intelligence reports, has actually stepped up the arrest of stone-pelters in the past month.
On the key recommendation of troops reduction and a re-evaluation of laws like the Armed Forces (Special Powers) Act, they have again met with resistance from the defence ministry.
riot (USA)
10 hrs ago (07:34 AM)
The only possible solution is to allow people who want to be with Pakistan to move and settle there... its even better to provide them some money to vacate our land so that we all can live peacefully... forget swapping of lands or heck even sharing power/administration over kashmir...
Agree (38)
Disagree (10)
Recommend (17)
Offensive
Santosh Kumar (Mumbai) replies to Naveed
10 hrs ago (07:29 AM)
Freedom from whom? Kashmir is a part of India. It's not different than any other state in India. You people have displaced Kashmiri pandits and other Hindus from their home. Shabbir Shah, Geelani should be deported to Pakistan.One more division of India in the name of religion is unacceptable.
Agree (26)
Disagree (5)
Recommend (15)
Offensive
Sunil (Bangalore) replies to Naveed
10 hrs ago (07:37 AM)
Even Pakistan did not deserve freedom...let alone Kashmir...How about giving freedom to Sindh? A beggar's wishes never ends after all...
Agree (23)
Disagree (6)
Recommend (13)
Offensive
Harshad (U.S.A.)
6 hrs ago (11:54 AM)
Kashmir being one of the state of India as per democracy only Kashmiris are electing their representative to run their state like any other states of India Just forget religious devide of the state same as any other state in India. If Kamiris run the state like any other state of India than Kashmir is a free state not an ocupied by India If some people do not want to participate in election than they are cowards they do not deserve to be leader. there is no restriction for Kasmiris to look for job or to do bussiness in India like any other people of India. Appears to be some kasmiri politicians want to suppress their own people not accepting democracy and rule kamiris like middle eastern or pakistani decetors
Agree (15)
Disagree (6)
Recommend (12)
Offensive
Sangram Singh Rana replies to Naveed
9 hrs ago (08:33 AM)
Either you have not read my comments properly, or you could not understand the comments. Once again, for plebiscite to happen, as per the UN resolution, as a pre-condition Pakistan must withdraw it's troops completely from POK (Pakistan Occupied Kashmir). Pakistan NEVER agreed to do so. Communist China claims their occupied part as a part of it's territory. Hence For plebiscite, both China and Pakistan have to fulfill their obligations, which they don't want to do. Moreover, under the changed demographic conditions, it would be unfair to hold plebiscite, as Pakistan has deliberately settled huge non-Kashmiri population in their occupied part to change the demography. Therefore, you can not blame India for not holding the plebiscite. Also, as I mentioned earlier, the Shias from Kargil, Hindus from Jammu and Buddhists from Ladakh form majorities in those areas and form about 90% of the geographic area of he State and are staunchly pro-Indian. The problem only lies with the small Kashmir valley (about 10% of the geographical area of the State) which a few months ago came out ( about 60% Voter turnout) in large numbers in spite of appeals by separatists for boycott and threats of life by terrorists. If Pakistan stops interference in the State, the problem will cease to exist. Pakistan being an Islamic State can not give it a right to claim Kashmir, as India has more Muslims than the whole population of Pakistan. Kashmir being a part of India is a test for it being secular.
Agree (19)
Disagree (1)
Recommend (12)
Offensive
PANDIT (NCR snagar)
11 hrs ago (06:45 AM)
Kashmir, just as the 160 million Indian Muslims, is an INTEGRAL part of India. There is NOTHING to negotiate about this. Kashmir has belonged to Hindus for 1000s of years. Important branches of Hinduism have originated from Kashmir, some holiest of the holy Hindu Pilgrimage places are in Kashmir, as the most important Hindu scripts have originated from Kashmir. We have never invited Muslims here. Though Parsis, Syrian Christians and Jews have found prosperity and acceptance here. Ahmadiyas, Bohras, Sufis and Bahais, though often not accepted in many muslim countries, flourish here. If the muslims in Kashmir are unhappy here then they are free to go elsewhere.
Agree (20)
Disagree (5)
Recommend (12)
Offensive
Sangram Singh Rana (New Delhi) replies to Naveed
10 hrs ago (07:33 AM)
The State of Jammu and Kashmir consists of Hindus (dogras), Buddhists, Sunni Muslims and Shia Muslims. The Hindus are in a majority in Jammu region, the Buddhists are in a majority in Ladakh region, the Shias are in a majority in Kargil region and the Sunnis are in a majority in the Kashmir valley. Jammu, Ladakh and Kargil form slightly larger than 90% of the geographical area of the State. The Hindus, Buddhists and Shias are hardcore pro-Indian and staunchly oppose independence option or Pakistan option. The Sunnis in the valley are concentrated in the small valley are the people who are agitating since the last two decades. Various Surveys conducted by independent foreign agencies have indicated that about 60% of the Sunnis are pro-Indian, about 30% of the Sunnis are pro-independence and about 10% are pro-Pakistan. Under these circumstances, India has always been confident that it can win any plebiscite in the State, but the problem lies in Pakistan occupied State, where the demography has been completely altered as a large percentage of non-Kashmiris have been settled in that region. In Indian part, article 370 of the constitution prevents any non-Kashmiri to settle in the state and Indians from other States can not buy any property in that State. Hence the problem is in Pakistan occupied Kashmir and China occupied Kashmir. Also, as per UN resolutions, as a precondition of plebiscite, Pakistan must withdraw it's army from Kashmir, which Pakistan has never agreed to do.
Agree (22)
Disagree (4)
Recommend (11)
Offensive
Dilip (Delhi) replies to prince
6 hrs ago (12:14 PM)
Yes, Kashmir belongs to us. Not to foreign settlers from Central Asia or Iran who don't even have Kashmiri names or even follow Kashmir's native culture or religion. you have to be a Kashmiri to claim Kashmir as your own. Just like you have to an Arab Muslim to claim Mecca, got it Prince?
Agree (16)
Disagree (4)
Recommend (10)
Offensive
Patriot (USA) replies to Naveed
10 hrs ago (07:32 AM)
lol first as a country 'Pakistan' needs to develop some freedom and dignity... beggars cant demand anything... reality check pls b4 bothering to air ur views
Agree (24)
Disagree (5)
Recommend (10)
Offensive
True Indian (Shanghai) replies to Naveed
10 hrs ago (07:35 AM)
They are just Hippocratic, who use foreign money to instigate the poor boys for stone pelting. Why dont they fight election and prove that they are true representatives of Kashmiri People. ?? Last time so many seperatist leaders fought elections and all of them lost ?? How can they claim to be representative if they have lost in elections..?? Our Govt. is taking stupid steps by talking to them
Agree (17)
Disagree (3)
Recommend (9)
Offensive
Suman Mukherjee (Singapore / India)
10 hrs ago (07:32 AM)
It has been stretched a bit too far. Everybody knows there is only one feasible solution for Kashmir - complete, unconditional annexation with India. Well, having said that I, personally, have no opposition to Kashmir being granted independence by India with simultaneous independence granted to Gilgit and Baltistan by Pakistan and Aksai Chin by China and reunification of Kashmir. BUT that is practical by no means, as neither Pakistan nor China has shown the slightest intention to do their part of the deal. Also, if peoples' referendum is what Kashmiris vow on, they should respect the same in Jammu and Ladakh, neither of which regions will want to be a part of "independent" Kashmir. So, the only realistic possibility is that Indian Kashmir assimilates with the rest of India. To be able to do so, Indian govt needs to recognize the menace done by these separatists working day and night in the Valley. By referring to them as "leaders" Indian govt and newspapers are equally culpable to the crime of measuring all Kashmiris by the same yardstick - that they are essentially separatists. Why give them that recognition? Why can't we, for once, be smart and either secretly annihilate these "leaders" or publicly expose them and their camouflaged intentions. Congress, which has the Tehelka, NDTV and a dozen other news media on its payroll doesn't need me to tell them how to do that, does it? They have done it so many times with the hapeless BJP leaders.
Agree (17)
Disagree (5)
Recommend (9)
Offensive
kishore (Florida )
2 hrs ago (04:04 PM)
Two catastrophic mistakes were made that has caused this whole J&K imbroglio to remian unresolved. The first was Nehru's decision to refer the matter to the UN and accepting its decision to hold a plebiscite. Completely unnecessary and uncalled for. He might as well have agreed to rescind the independence of India. The second mistake was Indira Gandhi being seduced by Bhutto into signing the Shimla declaration which he had no intention of honoring but got the freedom of Paki POWs and the return of all captured territory. India got nothing in return. Gandhi had the opportunity to end Pakistani pretensions to J&K once and for all and she blew it. Now the next lot of Nehru-Gandhis are at it again. They are trying to negotiate with separatists who refuse to participate in elections as they fear being exposed as emperors without clothes. A solution will be found once India gets rids of its obsession with the Nehru-Gandhi dynasty.
Agree (9)
Disagree (1)
Recommend (8)
Offensive
unicorn (bnglr)
6 hrs ago (12:15 PM)
like thousand of online terrorists on TOI in their unsuccessfull attempts to ceate conflicts in india, the separitists in kashmir, and the hurriyat are recieving dunding and advices from the these foul pakis. they will never ever be successfull.we r rich and we will richent he kashmiris who wil never ever even think of talking with in slum thiieves pak.all pakis disagreeing me,my challenge is wait n see forever ur failure..
Agree (15)
Disagree (8)
Recommend (8)
Offensive
Sangram Singh Rana replies to Naveed
8 hrs ago (10:06 AM)
I have already answered your questions on plebiscite separately. Now to answer your other questions - Terrorists from Pakistan murdered and ethnically cleansed out almost all non-Muslims from the valley. Most terrorists (thousands in number) were destroyed. Unfortunately, as a collateral damage some innocent Kashmiris too got killed. But when insurgency happens, such collateral damages too happen, as they are currently happening in KP/Balochistan now and in 1971 in Banladesh (as per reports from Dhaka, 3 million civilians were murdered by Pakistani troops in one year). Your second question about size of troops - Pakistan is singularly obsessed with Kashmir right from 1947, when Jinnah sent tribal Lashkar mixed with army personnel in civilian clothing to invade, occupy and loot Kashmir. In 1965, Ayub Khan launched Operation Gibraltar and invaded Kashmir militarily. About 10 years ago, there was Kargil intrusion and war. There was Siachen battle in the 1980s. The Chinese keep on intruding into Ladakh periodically. For security purposes, being a strategically sensitive region, India has o maintain large armed presence in Kashmir, as there are two adversaries, Pakistan and China, apart from a few hundred armed terrorists. Thirdly, stop calling secular India as Hindu India, as we have 4 states where Christians are in a majority, 1 state where Sikhs are in majority and 1 state where Muslims are in majority. In India our Muslim population is larger then the population of Pakistan.
Agree (12)
Disagree (2)
Recommend (7)
Offensive
Akthar Hussein (Hyderabad) replies to prince
6 hrs ago (12:08 PM)
you in which land ? where the heck are you from ? Jupiter ?
Agree (10)
Disagree (2)
Recommend (5)
Offensive
richard dias (Chembur, Bombay)
2 hrs ago (04:01 PM)
Struggle is a part of life but how long it can remain meaningless? There are people in Kashmir who wants into be a part of Pakistan. Will it given any freedom to people of Kashmir when it cannot face its own militants? The question of remaining free. Kashmir doesn't have agricultural fields needed to produce food for the people living there. Kashmir's future is with India. Settle the issues of difference soon. It would help the youth of Kashmir more than any one else. They don't have to lose their youth in an useless battle to become useless old people.
Agree (7)
Disagree (2)
Recommend (4)
Offensive
Akthar Hussein (Hyderabad) replies to prince
5 hrs ago (12:22 PM)
and you are begsterd is it ?
Agree (5)
Disagree (1)
Recommend (4)
Offensive
Naveed replies to Santosh Kumar
10 hrs ago (07:58 AM)
Freedom of Kashmir means from Hindu_India forces of 1 Million in Kashmir. It is freedom from India and Pakistan.
Agree (7)
Disagree (23)
Recommend (4)
Offensive
Naveed replies to Sangram Singh Rana
10 hrs ago (07:55 AM)
If Majority is with India then why is India afraid of free and fair plebiscite. They can make that offer to the world, win the plebiscite in J&K and come out ahead. Why has India killed over 100,000 Kashmiris since 1989 if Majority is with them You passionate plea and the ground situation do not go together. Whenever, pro-independence leaders call for strike the entire valley is shut down despite India having stationed over 1 million in military, para-military and police. I find it difficult to accept that if Majority supports India why has India stationed over 1 Million forces in a population of 6 Million? Why does India shoot at protesters? Don't they have right to protest and demand equal rights? Majority of Indian Hindus do not value the life of Kashmiris, yes they do care about the geographical territory of Kashmir. From Majority Hindu_Indian perspective 6 million could die or could be killed, they care less! It is unconscionable, immoral, illegal and illogical for Hindu_India to continue enslavement of Kashmiri people.
Agree (10)
Disagree (23)
Recommend (4)
Offensive
swamivas (Hong Kong)
9 hrs ago (09:03 AM)
A WELCOME MOVE! Opening up the ground leading to bringing to limelight the hidden hide-outs of such organizations with separatist agenda should be in the right direction though placing too much hope for a breakthrough could be a misplaced notion!
Agree (9)
Disagree (1)
Recommend (3)
Offensive
Naveed (USa)
11 hrs ago (06:57 AM)
Shabbir Shah and Geelani are the true leaders of Kashmir. Kashmiris need freedom and dignity like other communities in the world.
Agree (9)
Disagree (35)
Recommend (3)
Offensive
Bharatbal (Greater Hindusthan) replies to Akthar Hussein
2 hrs ago (03:34 PM)
I,Dilip and Patriot belong to one mother called Greater Hindusthan. I m unsure to which land you belong. if you mean u dont belong here better leave my motherland.
Agree (2)
Disagree (1)
Recommend (2)
Offensive
Akthar Hussein (Hyderabad) replies to Naveed
6 hrs ago (11:40 AM)
Geelani is a separatist who strongly supports Kashmir's integration with Pakistan ... you having said in an earlier comment that Geelani is a true leader of Kashmiris how can u say now that freedom is sought from Pak ; and does it mean that you are abandoning fellow Kashmiris who are under Pakistani occupation in POK ?
Agree (4)
Disagree (1)
Recommend (2)
Offensive
riot (USA)
10 hrs ago (07:34 AM)
The only possible solution is to allow people who want to be with Pakistan to move and settle there... its even better to provide them some money to vacate our land so that we all can live peacefully... forget swapping of lands or heck even sharing power/administration over kashmir...
Agree (38)
Disagree (10)
Recommend (17)
Offensive
Santosh Kumar (Mumbai) replies to Naveed
10 hrs ago (07:29 AM)
Freedom from whom? Kashmir is a part of India. It's not different than any other state in India. You people have displaced Kashmiri pandits and other Hindus from their home. Shabbir Shah, Geelani should be deported to Pakistan.One more division of India in the name of religion is unacceptable.
Agree (26)
Disagree (5)
Recommend (15)
Offensive
Sunil (Bangalore) replies to Naveed
10 hrs ago (07:37 AM)
Even Pakistan did not deserve freedom...let alone Kashmir...How about giving freedom to Sindh? A beggar's wishes never ends after all...
Agree (23)
Disagree (6)
Recommend (13)
Offensive
Harshad (U.S.A.)
6 hrs ago (11:54 AM)
Kashmir being one of the state of India as per democracy only Kashmiris are electing their representative to run their state like any other states of India Just forget religious devide of the state same as any other state in India. If Kamiris run the state like any other state of India than Kashmir is a free state not an ocupied by India If some people do not want to participate in election than they are cowards they do not deserve to be leader. there is no restriction for Kasmiris to look for job or to do bussiness in India like any other people of India. Appears to be some kasmiri politicians want to suppress their own people not accepting democracy and rule kamiris like middle eastern or pakistani decetors
Agree (15)
Disagree (6)
Recommend (12)
Offensive
Sangram Singh Rana replies to Naveed
9 hrs ago (08:33 AM)
Either you have not read my comments properly, or you could not understand the comments. Once again, for plebiscite to happen, as per the UN resolution, as a pre-condition Pakistan must withdraw it's troops completely from POK (Pakistan Occupied Kashmir). Pakistan NEVER agreed to do so. Communist China claims their occupied part as a part of it's territory. Hence For plebiscite, both China and Pakistan have to fulfill their obligations, which they don't want to do. Moreover, under the changed demographic conditions, it would be unfair to hold plebiscite, as Pakistan has deliberately settled huge non-Kashmiri population in their occupied part to change the demography. Therefore, you can not blame India for not holding the plebiscite. Also, as I mentioned earlier, the Shias from Kargil, Hindus from Jammu and Buddhists from Ladakh form majorities in those areas and form about 90% of the geographic area of he State and are staunchly pro-Indian. The problem only lies with the small Kashmir valley (about 10% of the geographical area of the State) which a few months ago came out ( about 60% Voter turnout) in large numbers in spite of appeals by separatists for boycott and threats of life by terrorists. If Pakistan stops interference in the State, the problem will cease to exist. Pakistan being an Islamic State can not give it a right to claim Kashmir, as India has more Muslims than the whole population of Pakistan. Kashmir being a part of India is a test for it being secular.
Agree (19)
Disagree (1)
Recommend (12)
Offensive
PANDIT (NCR snagar)
11 hrs ago (06:45 AM)
Kashmir, just as the 160 million Indian Muslims, is an INTEGRAL part of India. There is NOTHING to negotiate about this. Kashmir has belonged to Hindus for 1000s of years. Important branches of Hinduism have originated from Kashmir, some holiest of the holy Hindu Pilgrimage places are in Kashmir, as the most important Hindu scripts have originated from Kashmir. We have never invited Muslims here. Though Parsis, Syrian Christians and Jews have found prosperity and acceptance here. Ahmadiyas, Bohras, Sufis and Bahais, though often not accepted in many muslim countries, flourish here. If the muslims in Kashmir are unhappy here then they are free to go elsewhere.
Agree (20)
Disagree (5)
Recommend (12)
Offensive
Sangram Singh Rana (New Delhi) replies to Naveed
10 hrs ago (07:33 AM)
The State of Jammu and Kashmir consists of Hindus (dogras), Buddhists, Sunni Muslims and Shia Muslims. The Hindus are in a majority in Jammu region, the Buddhists are in a majority in Ladakh region, the Shias are in a majority in Kargil region and the Sunnis are in a majority in the Kashmir valley. Jammu, Ladakh and Kargil form slightly larger than 90% of the geographical area of the State. The Hindus, Buddhists and Shias are hardcore pro-Indian and staunchly oppose independence option or Pakistan option. The Sunnis in the valley are concentrated in the small valley are the people who are agitating since the last two decades. Various Surveys conducted by independent foreign agencies have indicated that about 60% of the Sunnis are pro-Indian, about 30% of the Sunnis are pro-independence and about 10% are pro-Pakistan. Under these circumstances, India has always been confident that it can win any plebiscite in the State, but the problem lies in Pakistan occupied State, where the demography has been completely altered as a large percentage of non-Kashmiris have been settled in that region. In Indian part, article 370 of the constitution prevents any non-Kashmiri to settle in the state and Indians from other States can not buy any property in that State. Hence the problem is in Pakistan occupied Kashmir and China occupied Kashmir. Also, as per UN resolutions, as a precondition of plebiscite, Pakistan must withdraw it's army from Kashmir, which Pakistan has never agreed to do.
Agree (22)
Disagree (4)
Recommend (11)
Offensive
Dilip (Delhi) replies to prince
6 hrs ago (12:14 PM)
Yes, Kashmir belongs to us. Not to foreign settlers from Central Asia or Iran who don't even have Kashmiri names or even follow Kashmir's native culture or religion. you have to be a Kashmiri to claim Kashmir as your own. Just like you have to an Arab Muslim to claim Mecca, got it Prince?
Agree (16)
Disagree (4)
Recommend (10)
Offensive
Patriot (USA) replies to Naveed
10 hrs ago (07:32 AM)
lol first as a country 'Pakistan' needs to develop some freedom and dignity... beggars cant demand anything... reality check pls b4 bothering to air ur views
Agree (24)
Disagree (5)
Recommend (10)
Offensive
True Indian (Shanghai) replies to Naveed
10 hrs ago (07:35 AM)
They are just Hippocratic, who use foreign money to instigate the poor boys for stone pelting. Why dont they fight election and prove that they are true representatives of Kashmiri People. ?? Last time so many seperatist leaders fought elections and all of them lost ?? How can they claim to be representative if they have lost in elections..?? Our Govt. is taking stupid steps by talking to them
Agree (17)
Disagree (3)
Recommend (9)
Offensive
Suman Mukherjee (Singapore / India)
10 hrs ago (07:32 AM)
It has been stretched a bit too far. Everybody knows there is only one feasible solution for Kashmir - complete, unconditional annexation with India. Well, having said that I, personally, have no opposition to Kashmir being granted independence by India with simultaneous independence granted to Gilgit and Baltistan by Pakistan and Aksai Chin by China and reunification of Kashmir. BUT that is practical by no means, as neither Pakistan nor China has shown the slightest intention to do their part of the deal. Also, if peoples' referendum is what Kashmiris vow on, they should respect the same in Jammu and Ladakh, neither of which regions will want to be a part of "independent" Kashmir. So, the only realistic possibility is that Indian Kashmir assimilates with the rest of India. To be able to do so, Indian govt needs to recognize the menace done by these separatists working day and night in the Valley. By referring to them as "leaders" Indian govt and newspapers are equally culpable to the crime of measuring all Kashmiris by the same yardstick - that they are essentially separatists. Why give them that recognition? Why can't we, for once, be smart and either secretly annihilate these "leaders" or publicly expose them and their camouflaged intentions. Congress, which has the Tehelka, NDTV and a dozen other news media on its payroll doesn't need me to tell them how to do that, does it? They have done it so many times with the hapeless BJP leaders.
Agree (17)
Disagree (5)
Recommend (9)
Offensive
kishore (Florida )
2 hrs ago (04:04 PM)
Two catastrophic mistakes were made that has caused this whole J&K imbroglio to remian unresolved. The first was Nehru's decision to refer the matter to the UN and accepting its decision to hold a plebiscite. Completely unnecessary and uncalled for. He might as well have agreed to rescind the independence of India. The second mistake was Indira Gandhi being seduced by Bhutto into signing the Shimla declaration which he had no intention of honoring but got the freedom of Paki POWs and the return of all captured territory. India got nothing in return. Gandhi had the opportunity to end Pakistani pretensions to J&K once and for all and she blew it. Now the next lot of Nehru-Gandhis are at it again. They are trying to negotiate with separatists who refuse to participate in elections as they fear being exposed as emperors without clothes. A solution will be found once India gets rids of its obsession with the Nehru-Gandhi dynasty.
Agree (9)
Disagree (1)
Recommend (8)
Offensive
unicorn (bnglr)
6 hrs ago (12:15 PM)
like thousand of online terrorists on TOI in their unsuccessfull attempts to ceate conflicts in india, the separitists in kashmir, and the hurriyat are recieving dunding and advices from the these foul pakis. they will never ever be successfull.we r rich and we will richent he kashmiris who wil never ever even think of talking with in slum thiieves pak.all pakis disagreeing me,my challenge is wait n see forever ur failure..
Agree (15)
Disagree (8)
Recommend (8)
Offensive
Sangram Singh Rana replies to Naveed
8 hrs ago (10:06 AM)
I have already answered your questions on plebiscite separately. Now to answer your other questions - Terrorists from Pakistan murdered and ethnically cleansed out almost all non-Muslims from the valley. Most terrorists (thousands in number) were destroyed. Unfortunately, as a collateral damage some innocent Kashmiris too got killed. But when insurgency happens, such collateral damages too happen, as they are currently happening in KP/Balochistan now and in 1971 in Banladesh (as per reports from Dhaka, 3 million civilians were murdered by Pakistani troops in one year). Your second question about size of troops - Pakistan is singularly obsessed with Kashmir right from 1947, when Jinnah sent tribal Lashkar mixed with army personnel in civilian clothing to invade, occupy and loot Kashmir. In 1965, Ayub Khan launched Operation Gibraltar and invaded Kashmir militarily. About 10 years ago, there was Kargil intrusion and war. There was Siachen battle in the 1980s. The Chinese keep on intruding into Ladakh periodically. For security purposes, being a strategically sensitive region, India has o maintain large armed presence in Kashmir, as there are two adversaries, Pakistan and China, apart from a few hundred armed terrorists. Thirdly, stop calling secular India as Hindu India, as we have 4 states where Christians are in a majority, 1 state where Sikhs are in majority and 1 state where Muslims are in majority. In India our Muslim population is larger then the population of Pakistan.
Agree (12)
Disagree (2)
Recommend (7)
Offensive
Akthar Hussein (Hyderabad) replies to prince
6 hrs ago (12:08 PM)
you in which land ? where the heck are you from ? Jupiter ?
Agree (10)
Disagree (2)
Recommend (5)
Offensive
richard dias (Chembur, Bombay)
2 hrs ago (04:01 PM)
Struggle is a part of life but how long it can remain meaningless? There are people in Kashmir who wants into be a part of Pakistan. Will it given any freedom to people of Kashmir when it cannot face its own militants? The question of remaining free. Kashmir doesn't have agricultural fields needed to produce food for the people living there. Kashmir's future is with India. Settle the issues of difference soon. It would help the youth of Kashmir more than any one else. They don't have to lose their youth in an useless battle to become useless old people.
Agree (7)
Disagree (2)
Recommend (4)
Offensive
Akthar Hussein (Hyderabad) replies to prince
5 hrs ago (12:22 PM)
and you are begsterd is it ?
Agree (5)
Disagree (1)
Recommend (4)
Offensive
Naveed replies to Santosh Kumar
10 hrs ago (07:58 AM)
Freedom of Kashmir means from Hindu_India forces of 1 Million in Kashmir. It is freedom from India and Pakistan.
Agree (7)
Disagree (23)
Recommend (4)
Offensive
Naveed replies to Sangram Singh Rana
10 hrs ago (07:55 AM)
If Majority is with India then why is India afraid of free and fair plebiscite. They can make that offer to the world, win the plebiscite in J&K and come out ahead. Why has India killed over 100,000 Kashmiris since 1989 if Majority is with them You passionate plea and the ground situation do not go together. Whenever, pro-independence leaders call for strike the entire valley is shut down despite India having stationed over 1 million in military, para-military and police. I find it difficult to accept that if Majority supports India why has India stationed over 1 Million forces in a population of 6 Million? Why does India shoot at protesters? Don't they have right to protest and demand equal rights? Majority of Indian Hindus do not value the life of Kashmiris, yes they do care about the geographical territory of Kashmir. From Majority Hindu_Indian perspective 6 million could die or could be killed, they care less! It is unconscionable, immoral, illegal and illogical for Hindu_India to continue enslavement of Kashmiri people.
Agree (10)
Disagree (23)
Recommend (4)
Offensive
swamivas (Hong Kong)
9 hrs ago (09:03 AM)
A WELCOME MOVE! Opening up the ground leading to bringing to limelight the hidden hide-outs of such organizations with separatist agenda should be in the right direction though placing too much hope for a breakthrough could be a misplaced notion!
Agree (9)
Disagree (1)
Recommend (3)
Offensive
Naveed (USa)
11 hrs ago (06:57 AM)
Shabbir Shah and Geelani are the true leaders of Kashmir. Kashmiris need freedom and dignity like other communities in the world.
Agree (9)
Disagree (35)
Recommend (3)
Offensive
Bharatbal (Greater Hindusthan) replies to Akthar Hussein
2 hrs ago (03:34 PM)
I,Dilip and Patriot belong to one mother called Greater Hindusthan. I m unsure to which land you belong. if you mean u dont belong here better leave my motherland.
Agree (2)
Disagree (1)
Recommend (2)
Offensive
Akthar Hussein (Hyderabad) replies to Naveed
6 hrs ago (11:40 AM)
Geelani is a separatist who strongly supports Kashmir's integration with Pakistan ... you having said in an earlier comment that Geelani is a true leader of Kashmiris how can u say now that freedom is sought from Pak ; and does it mean that you are abandoning fellow Kashmiris who are under Pakistani occupation in POK ?
Agree (4)
Disagree (1)
Recommend (2)
Offensive
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Separatist-leaders-write-to-JK-interlocutors-say-no/articleshow/7584186.cms
Posts
No comments:
Post a Comment